In my experience....(CAW Tips and Tricks)

[Mistah Showtime]

Alright, so this thread is to help people out when creating CAWs and converting them from one platform to another. Any tips or tricks that you have found that works well you can post in here in order to help out. If you have any questions about any of this, you can post those in here as well. I'll start.

PS3/360 conversions over to PS2 and vice versa look quite different not only morphing wise, but attire wise as well. I've done quite a few since beginning OWN and let me tell ya, I had to talk to people over IM and let them watch me create the CAWs using my cap card as a webcam to get the looks as close as possible. Entrances and movesets were the same so long as they weren't using DLC, but you really gotta look out for the morphing and attires. Most people already know this and have had to go through the painful task of doing conversions.

Another thing that really needs to be addressed? COLORS! I can't say that enough! Colors in the HD quality of PS3 and 360 are quite different than the composite quality of PS2. If you want your CAW to look as accurate as possible, YOU MUST talk to the person doing the conversion and give them as much input as possible. Perhaps even watch them while their creating it so they can get your help.

If submitting a formula, PLEASE take help pics. You have no idea how much these really help, especially if there are tons of designs or tattoos. Descriptions don't always cut it. Help pics are almost a requirement whether it's for a conversion from one platform to another or on the same platform. Take. Help. Pics.

If you do these few things for the people doing your conversions or creating your CAWs, it will make a world of difference on how well the CAW actually turns out.

Well, that's all I got for now. If you got a tip or trick to share, feel free to post it!

[J-PyRo]

Here's one... Just make it, do what you can to think it looks good and call it done. If they're not considerate enough to get you help pictures for the different format or find someone that can, it's their fault if it doesn't look like they imagined it. It saves you the stress. I only had one that I constantly checked up on to make sure it came out looking right, and that was Ed's Chris Calloway. I had MG looking like a cardboard cut-out, that is, wide as hell with no depth... some of the stuff gets weird. And it's at that time that you just go with your gut instinct, and if you feel nice, send them the pictures for any input. For the most part though, I've got a pretty good conversion rate, with all of my formulas pretty heavy on the help picture side.

[j]

At the end of the day be stern, you are giving them free matches and a lot of people want that so if the effort is not in the formula then maybe you should inform them that you are giving up a lot of time to do this and that you don't HAVE to do it. I don't see being firm as rude because it's time you could spend doing other things and most would agree getting you the CAW is down to the handler in my opinion.

Now for a tip ;D

I said this in Prodigy's showcase but if you use a lot of the static tattoos try using a skin colored one underneath and the same one above in the desired ink color so that when you reduce the opacity parts aren't darker. Having a 360 helps a lot with this.

[*†*Oz70NYC*†*]

My addition into this has nothing to do with the look of your caws, but rather how they act in game. It's been an issue I've tried to address for months if not YEARS over on XWA and elsewhere. People seem to have this misconception that if you give a caw nothing but monsterous, high spot moves that it's going to be a beast in the ring. These people are also the ones who end up below .500 come the end of the season, and wondering if their matches are being fixed, questioning their caw making ability, or flaking outright from a fed. There's no one to blame but yourself, because you've made the most novice mistake in creating a caw's moveset...

Lack of variety

In real life, most wrestlers have maybe 4-5 "big" moves they'll pull out during a match, with the rest being the basics. Suplexes, scoop slams, DDTs, etc. Why for the life of me are their STILL people now, in 2009, 10 years later from the original game releasing that still haven't figured this out, I will never know. But the "big" moves have a major downside. They're easier to counter then the smaller moves. The countering system on all SVR games has always been timing based. There are two points of which a move can be countered. When a standing grapple is at 1st initiated, and when the move following the grapple is initiated. The bigger the move is, the larger the window of inputting the counter command. Now couple that with an AI that does things on an alphanumeric basis, set on the hardest difficulty setting, with sliders set up to emphasize more defense then offense.

See where this is going folks?

Offense will win you NOTHING in most E-Feds, let alone XWA, as we've optimized things so that a more aggressive caw can and often times will be matched by a passive one. But how do you make a more defense minded arsenal, you ask? Exactly what I stated above. Base your offense on reality and not pwnage. Some of the best, most victorious caws I've seen in the last 4 years are the ones who stray from the "bigger is better" formula. Prime example I'll use is the Bryan Jasta caw. In 4 years, it's only lost 4 matches, and year after year, it's sent in by the handler as the spitting image of the previous year's version, with exception of certain new features the game might add on year to year. You wanna know the difference between Jasta 09 and Jasta 08? Signatures and Finishers. THAT'S IT. Other then that it's the same caw move-wise, and it still runs circles around anything It faces one on one.

So how has the handler year after year put together such an effective caw? Easy. It doesn't have a big offense. In fact, the caw has as base an offense as you can imagine. Scoop slams, various suplex varieties, a few SS moves. It has only about 5 moves total that you could count as high spot moves, and those DON'T include it's signature moves. This approach makes him virtually unstoppable in the early portions of a match, which is the key portion of any match on SVR. While the other caw is attempting Double arm suplexes and powerbombs 5 minutes it, Jasta's doing scoop slams, arm twist kicks and vertical suplexes. Who do YOU think is going to hit more? By the time the opposing caw has mounted any sufficient damage on the Jasta caw, it's already to late, as Jasta will have already worked them down to red in both head and body. Another key component is optimizes the range of the caw's offense. The prime example I'll use for that is none other then Jon Payne.

Payne is a different kind of caw offensively in that he attacks in angles. And his most versatile means of doing this is his strikes. All of his strikes cover distance between him and the opponent, they track the opponent when they're near enough, (meaning the animation will detect the other caw and face Payne in it's general direction when they're in close enough proximity) and most important;y, they're non-committing moves. (Meaning there's now "load up" animation before it, and no recovering animation after, both of which leave a caw vulnerable for a split second.) Add to that he uses the same philosophy in moveset as Jasta, being less spot moves and more traditional "Strong Style/Catch Wrestling" techniques and a FoF optimized to attack in various levels, and that's the reason why Jon Payne's been as successful in the limited times he's made in ring appearances.

The next point I'll make is on attacking in levels. What that means is attacking more then one body part. Sounds real easy, right? Sounds like something everyone should do, right? WRONG!!! Just because you're doing it doesn't mean you're doing it right. So you have all of your standing moves based to attack head and body. That's good. What about ground? And corner moves? Running moves? Top Rope moves? Counter grapple? I can go on. People tend to forget that caws attack from way more positions then the standing tie-up. This is where caws lose steam, and in turn lose matches. What good is that kick ass finisher doing you if you're not optimizing your caw to damage the area the move is aimed for? I can't tell you how many movesets I've seen this year alone that suffer from this. And these will be the same people who PM my 2 months from now asking "Why can't my caw win a match?" It's really not that hard. Build your moveset to be functional, not flashy. Flashy will get you uwws and aahs, but it won't get you victories, simple as that.

And last, but most certainly not least, the most important aspect of building an efficient in ring caw, above all other aspects...and something again I've been trying to beat into people's skulls...

KNOW YOUR AI!!!

How do you do this? Sim and match, and watch it CLOSELY using the caw in particular. Watch what it does. Watch what moves it uses most. Watch what lines it takes, what angles it attacks from, which of it's strikes it uses most. Then go back and optimize it so that the caws more efficient moves are mapped to those controls. You'll see a change in it's effectiveness almost immediately. Now keep in mind, this is not a quick process. It takes months to actually know what you caws AI will do. I've worked all of my caws over vigorously since November, and now, here in April am I actually satisfied with how 70% of them interact in the ring, while the rest I'm STILL working over. It's not easy by any means, but if you consider yourself a serious caw maker, building caws that looks good is only 20% of the process. Good looking caws can still get their asses kicked.

Now, by no means does any of this guarantee your caw will be unbeatable. Nothing does that unless you hack it's durability to the highest level of 255. What it does is make them more efficient in game. More efficient means more competitive, and that means even when it loses, it won't be a convincing loss. The measure of a good moveset isn't how well it does in winning, but how well it does in losing. I personally tested Jasta against Simon Fierhart, who is purposely made stronger then the rest of my flagship caws (100s in all stats and 8 abilities, including Resiliency, Kip up AND Bloodshed). Jasta managed to whittle Simon down to Orange in head and body. He lost, yes...but he managed that much damage on a caw that out ranked him in all areas. That's a solid caw, whereas I've tested other people's caws against Simon and it was like they barely laid a hand on him. If you take into consideration any of the above mentioned aspects, and basically go at your moveset building with the purpose of efficiency as opposed to victory, you'll find that your caws performances even in losing are far more satisfactory and realistic then without.

[maniac71690]

Except for the fact there are flashy and power moves that actually don't get countered as much as they used by a decent amount. There's also, the impact that stats, sliders, and abilities have on how well a CAW performs. Some places, flashy and impact moves will get you places because of stats, sliders, and settings.

My advice. Simple. Create a moveset that fits the abilities you give your CAW and don't focus on trying to build some unbeatable CAW. The second one more ties in with efeds and rping. A CAW that is balanced in losing and winning is superior to an unbeatable CAW in terms of entertainment. An unbeatable CAW is repetitive to a fault. It doesn't really have much of a choice, but to be repetitive, but a CAW that can go out and have matches that can go back and forth and lose and win regularly is one of the best and most enjoyable CAWs to read in the hands of even average rpers.

Oh and about abilties. The so called "useless" abilities may not be so useless since what you choose for abilities does more than just decide what bonuses your CAW gets. Abilities impact the AI in deciding how the CAW will fight.

[*†*Oz70NYC*†*]

That's a given. Naturally you'd wanna base your moveset on your abilities. I didn't mention that because I figured that'd come as second nature to anyone. If your guy/girl uses submission and lock pick, of course you'd want them to have more submission moves, and if they use springboard, you'd want them to use moves that set up being able to snap off the springboard moves without getting countered. (A science I've perfected in the many Junior Heavyweights I've created in the las 2 months) That's just common knowledge, though you'd be surprised how much "common" stuff regarding moveset building escapes most people. The only abilities you can't "gear" a moveset to are the match specific ones, Object, Ladder Match, Table match and Steel Cage Match, because they only come into play in those specific match types. Still, as documented by such caws as Jonny Punch, there's an art to creating an effective Hardcore caw as well. But that's a tutorial in and of itself, and not many people make hardcore exclusive caws.

Which leads me to another thing I passed up on. People...please...STOP trying to make jacks of all trades. You're seriously limiting yourself trying to make a caw that's good at everything. Focus on one particular style and build your offense based in THAT style. If your caw is a shooter, make them a shooter. If it's a submission specialist, make them that way. When you try to mix and match to make them excel at everything, that's when you run into problems. I've been simming match repeatedly for well over 4 years now, so trust me when I say I see things about caws that most people miss, because I see the caws in action on a weekly basis. A caw that's GREAT at one thing will be a caw that's "good" at a bunch of things every single time. You abilities dictate how the caw will fight, your choice in moves will dictate not only how the abilities are brought into play, but how effective they will be as well.

There are other variables to take into consideration as well. What kind of matches your caw will be in, what level of opposition they face, etc. So there is no true, full proof, guaranteed way to ensure your caw will "dominate".But with the means I stated above, you WILL ensure it won't get it's ass handed to it in a losing effort.

[j]

I have to agree with a lot of this I try to vary my home roster because I have a pecking order. Kaoz has Val who I tried to put in moves that work for example the powerslam 3 which was fast but looks like a big move and I remember on 08 it was 12 for damage so a medium damage but it works pretty well at least on PS3 it does Candice does it a lot. I'll admit Val was untested before I submitted him to XWA. My reason was I tested the hell out of Lauren to make her a "winner" and she bombed in GCW so I vowed to never be obsessed with testing. I tend to pick moves that work on my save and I add a risky move that will hit later in the match so it looks cool. Also something that Pyro said was to add in some small pin moves because they build good momentum.

Also something spoken between myself, Pyro and Addy about the player slots however both said different things which I can't quite put my finger on because I think CAWs perform differently in other slots. I must admit in my experience P2 does seem to hit the rarer moves more frequently, and swapping the order can give different matches entirely which makes simming for efeds tricky if indeed Addy is right and P2 gets reversed less, reluctantly I admit it brings in a new rigging argument again.

Also has anybody noticed finisher reversals because since I gave Candice the Last Ride instead of SS Bearhug she rarely gets it reversed, it just puzzles me. Maybe Addy can tell me if it gets reversed on hers more or less than the bearhug.

[The Super Villains]

I've built Brent Starr the exact same, year after year. The only things that change, are the moves which have been taken out. Even then, I find a replacement that is the same, or close enough to it. People hate facing him, and I hate the fact until this year, he's been unbeatable. It's more fun to RP a character that wins and loses in bunches, then it is a solid W or L from top to bottom.

As for Sylas.. well, he's the same to an extent. I switch moves in and out as he progresses in his career.
Year 1 (SYM) he was shining wizards, Kicks, DDTs and suplex's
Year 2 (HCTP) he was virtually the same, minus DDT's, with submissions instead.
Year 3 - Year 6 (05-08) He was built to be more technical (German, Half Nelson, Dragon suplex's) with Submissions tossed in for wear down. (Dragon Sleepers from front, ground and back when available, tazmission in 05/06 aswell)
Year 7 - (SD09) He was slapped together as a placeholder in efeds. As I never intended him to wrestle, following the shooting in VWE/VWA. He was supposed to just fight storyline wise, maybe have 4 matches in the year IF THAT.

LEGEND version on 09 though, he's built solid, top to bottom, a mix of everything that's been used. Side Effect front and back, Dragon Sleeper, German Suplex, Dragon & Tiger Suplex, Kicks, DDTs, Shining Wizards, Lionsault as a signature, Cross Armed DDT as a signature, Modified Lift & Cutter as one finisher, Custom old school EDGEcution as the other finisher.
Litteraly a mix from day 1, to today of what he's used.

The rest of my caws, are all slapped together on what I view the character as using. I don't build to win, I build to entertain, as I gave up on efed success in exchange for storyline success.

[MG]

Um.......... I beat Brent!! (other have too right?)

Well Kaoz have you tried MG? I bet he got something of a far more worst calibur of a beating then say....... Brandon Payne XWA season 1

[maniac71690]

when it comes to CAWs, an unbeatable CAW isn't just one that doesn't lose. It's one that almost never loses.

[DialM4Murda]

<.< Meh... I just pick whatever moves fits my characters and roll with it. lol It's hit or miss sometimes. I stopped trying to sim matches for results a long time ago. I just do it for fun. XD lol If the CAW gets lucky and has a good streak... Yay for me. If my CAW is a flop... I'll edit them, but I'm not going to spend extensive time to get a winner.

[$~L~$]

Apr 6, 2009 19:33:11 GMT -5 DialM4Murda said:

<.< Meh... I just pick whatever moves fits my characters and roll with it. lol It's hit or miss sometimes. I stopped trying to sim matches for results a long time ago. I just do it for fun. XD lol If the CAW gets lucky and has a good streak... Yay for me. If my CAW is a flop... I'll edit them, but I'm not going to spend extensive time to get a winner.

Word.

[jag]

In my experience....(CAW Tips and Tricks) me i have none hahhahhahahha if u want a nice Japanese face and a different looking attire or a unpronounceable name or an off the wall back story then im ur man!!!!!!!!!!

[The Super Villains]

I've submitted 1 moveset edit in 4 years of VWE/A for Sylas, and it was a correction on a move #, not replace a move for a different one.

Starr, well, I think 1 moveset edit in 3 years for him.

I've never gone overboard simming caw vs caw to find a good moveset. I've made the caws how they are, and stuck with them unless they are total flops. Then I might edit them, but NEVER for efeds, just my own personal sim fed.

And yes, MG did beat Brent. A well earned win. As for others who have, off the top of my head, 6 ppl.

[spyder78]

Me I just make em' as best as I can... You like them you like them, you don't you don't XD

[maniac71690]

I think that's the ultimate CAW tip. Make what you want to make lol. Those are the CAWs you'll be proud of the most. That's how it is with Manor. Apart from occasional morphing suggestions, I've never taken suggestions on how a certain attire should look. And it the CAWs that are 100% me that I'll like more than any other CAW out there and feel the proudest of.

Another tip. This one is more of if you want to test yourself. Variety. You want to see how good your skills are as a CAW maker, create something you've never created before.

[j]

With movesets I try to find a balance of something the CAW would do and something that works, and last year was me learning movesets and I think I did pretty well with that. However I admit I sold out with Lauren she fought nothing like the Lauren in invisioned when I made her and finally on 09 I got one that does wrestle like she should. I did this by making some compromises also but this can be down to character evolving over her years wrestling. For most of my top caws their style varies for example Logan has more submission and traditional wrestling moves where as Cal has dirty and martial arts elements. Candice is a power/brawler with some moves inserted like a moonsault, also on 08 she had her truest moveset but 09 took some of her moves out or made them signatures or finisher only lol. Lauren is a quick technical wrestler similar to Bret Hart and I added a hurricanrana because it's one of those moves in my mind she'd do. Also most of my caws have a T-Bone because I am a mark for them. Also the quick russian leg sweep is in her moveset too because I like her doing it .

I should add that I only really build movesets for my top CAWs or ones I plan on using in an efed, others I just copy a WWE guys moveset and change the finisher. Laziness FTW. Most of mine attack the head and torso but for something different with Megan Redfield I tried making her attack the arms too and so far in simes she wears the three sections down in equal measure most of the time and isn't bad she certainly gives little sister a good run and her prize student isn't too "big" for a thrashing .

My advice for people is not to tested them over and over because it just gets so boring and really after hard effort of testing and they lose it will hit you that much harder than if you take a relaxed approach. For example for a couple of my CAWs I sent them in untested and they fight fairly well. I was always told it's about the stories not the wins and as mentioned about if you won all of the time it limits the character which I suppose losing all the time does also but a mixture can provide better stuff rp wise. Also some characters didn't need wins to get title shots because they were roleplayed so well.

Like Maniac state if you like your CAW then really that is all that matters, and he does have a point about trying something new. Sometimes thinking outside of the box or rather your box helps produce some variety an example of mine is Tokyo Thunder for me is outside of the box as the majority of my attires are dark usually black and something. Best advice I can give people is play with the caw mode and find little short cuts which one I found I will explain it later today.

[Mistah Showtime]

So, I'm trying to figure out how to get CAWs to do more high flying moves in simmed matches. Even though they have Springboard and Outside Dives abilities, they aren't doing any dives outside the ring, springboards off the ropes or corners, or going up top much. Got a top rope finisher too that never gets hit. Any tips from anybody on how to get them to do so?

Couple things I am going to try is switching the top rope finisher to the 1st finisher slot instead of having it in the 2nd and dropping their weight a bit so they are a light heavyweight instead of heavyweight. Any other suggestions?

[chelsea.staub]

Corner Attack: On the Top Rope.

Having two high-flying finishers instead of one.

Dives outside the ring rarely happen, if ever.

Springboard moves tend to get interrupted because the AI is stupid when they choose to do them. (Ala, running towards the ropes when the person is still standing, thus allowing the other to shoulder block them off the ring apron onto the arena floor.)

[Canadian-CAW-Guy-57]

wow so many tips and stuff.... kinda funny that two caws I didnt test before sending in after making them in about 3 and a half hours became pretty strong in APW. they were High Voltage, then when i actually played around with their movesets and tested, they weren't as strong I'm definately not someone to talk to about movesets, BUT attires are more my thing. I draw inspiration for logos from everywhere, like Jimmy Rivers as an example, got his colour scheme, nickname and logo idea from a hockey team i just usually stack layers of logos or try to make attires flow using alot of shapes and lines, which usually looks good. well thats my two cents ;D

OH and for colour schemes, BLACK or sometimes white is a MUST! Blue, green and yellow thrown together without a colour like black to seperate usually looks odd, only seen afew pull it off, example: Smiley, but its very VERY rare it looks as effective

[spyder78]

Blue, green and yellow thrown together without a colour like black to seperate usually looks odd, only seen afew pull it off,

Looks at my caw with those color combos..then looks back at you

;D LOL